Debate with a Pluralist

Below is an email discussion I had with my dear friend whom I’ll call “Conversant” who was an atheist a few years ago, but now is a self-avowed Pluralist. He wanted to debate politics…

Me
Don’t know if you were joking around last night, but debating politics is too much on the fringe of importance to risk bad emotions.

But I am interested to know, however: disregarding what the the skeptics say, and un-Christlike behavior of so-called Christians, why do you reject Jesus?

Conversant
I don’t reject Jesus. I believe that Jesus lived in a time of many men teaching different parables at that time. I believe that the Christian faith grew from that and used his teachings as a foundation to grow a religion in order to inspire or control (depending on your point of view if you follow this theory) the population at that time in history. What I do reject is the notion that if I don’t accept Jesus as my personal savior I (and all other persons on this earth who are non-believers or of another faith are damned to Hell).
As far as us debating politics and having ill feelings towards each other……I would hope that our friendship would trump that from ever happening. I enjoy our debates and find them a good exercise in voicing and reflecting on what I believe (something I rarely did when I was using and boozing). What I am learning to do is to respect all peoples faith and learn a little bit about them so that I may grow spiritually. What I feel inside is that life lived through the positivity of love and tolerance is an indescribable force and that when I operate in that manner I feel that I am on a good spiritual path.
Thanks for the question….and perhaps you would like to answer this. Does your belief in Jesus preclude any other faiths beliefs in your spiritual quiver.

Me
In short, yes. Because Jesus was not a mere man — he was God came down to Earth in human form.

A good man or teacher would not claim to be God unless it were true. Otherwise he was a maniac (how many people have been put in insane asylums claiming to be God – but Jesus was not – in fact time itself is divided by the (albeit miscalculated) date of his birth) or he was completely evil. There can be no middle ground.

I can find at least 5-10 places where He claimed to be God without even trying. That is why he was crucified.

Therefore, if God says the only way to heaven is through Him, He must know what he is talking about!

Admission to Heaven is not based upon being good. Otherwise Heaven would be completely devoid of humans.

Conversant
Well, I’m grateful we don’t live in another place or during another time period where we would feel compelled to kill each other.

Me
You didn’t get it, did you?
Sigh. Yeah, glad I don’t have to burn you at the stake… 🙂

Conversant
get what?

Me
Multiple choice…

Was Jesus:

• A. Lunatic
• B. Liar
• C. Lord

Conversant
You forgot
D. None of the above

Me
None of the above is not possible. He could not be an ordinary man and claim to be God unless he was a liar or a lunatic.

He claimed to be God, and every time He claimed it, the Jews wanted him dead.

Below are just a few.

——–

Jesus said unto them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am”. At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. John 8:58

Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly… Jesus answered them, “I told you, and ye believed not… I and my Father are one…
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. John 10:24-31

Jesus saith unto him… Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy. What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death. Matthew 26:64-66

——-

The apostle Paul confirms:

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. Philippians 2:5-7

And the apostle John confirms:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made… The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:1-14

Conversant
I don’t think that in this instance that you can change my belief by stating yours. I respect your interpretation of scripture as one of absolute truth. I do not share this belief. Therefore; while D. None of the above is impossible for you to consider, it is the choice for me.
Consider the existence of the color red. Consider your perception of the color red. Can you say with certainty that what your human brain has processed and is replicating in your image-sensory world….. that it is the same as another persons perception of the color red. Could you prove it?

Me
It’s not a subjective issue. Just because someone thinks the world is flat does not make it true.

You don’t have to believe the Bible is infallible. There is tons of historical, archaeological, and forensic evidence to back it up.

Have no fear. You don’t have to change your life, become “good”, start going to chuch, or anything except believe to get to heaven.

Conversant
I thought that if you want to get to heaven……..you got to raise a little hell.

Obviously end of discussion.
I pray at least a seed was planted.
I stand on the statement that God’s word will not return to Him void.

Jesus: More Than Just a Man – He is God

What does Mark 9:2-29 tell us about Jesus?
First, it tells us that Jesus is divine – or at least more than just a mortal man. While walking down the mountain, He asked the disciples not to tell anyone about the transfiguration that had just happened — certainly not an everyday event! He had requested several times for certain deeds not to be proclaimed (i.e. Mk 7:36, Mt 8:4, etc.). Probably for several reasons, but the first thing that comes to my mind is for His own safety. His life was in constant danger, and every time He alluded to His divinity, the people wanted to throw Him off a cliff or started picking up stones. But it was not yet His time. Secondly, the talk of resurrection (v. 9:9) shows that Jesus is more than an angel (or other supernatural being), but the actual Messiah, Himself! Jesus alluded to the fact that John the Baptist was the Elijah predicted to precede Him, further demonstrating that He is nothing less than the predicted Messiah (vv.
12-13).

The central message:

As mentioned, above, clearly one central message of these verses and the surrounding context is Jesus’ Divinity.
If we include the verses before and after (Mk. 9:2-29), it is a panorama or
snapshot of Jesus’ history. The transfiguration shows Jesus in His glory before the world was (vv. 2-12); then He came down among men (vv. 9-13) to teach and to do for us what we could not do for ourselves (vv. 14-29). It spoke of His pending resurrection (v.9). And by casting out the demon that the disciples could not (vv.14-27), He displayed His dominion over demons and superiority to man.

It also shows that we are completely blind and powerless without Jesus:

a.) Peter is completely bewildered at the transfiguration.
b.) The apostles cannot grasp the concept of the coming resurrection.
c.) The other disciples are unable to cast out the demon, and
d.) There were possibly still questions in their minds concerning Jesus’ Messiah-ship as well. For instance, it had been prophesied that Elijah would precede the Messiah. So they may have been politely asking: “Ok, so if you are the Messiah, where is Elijah?” (v. 11)

What is “Good Friday”? What Does Easter Celebrate?

Good Friday is actually very important. Good Friday has been described as the crux of time, itself. Good Friday is the day that Jesus was crucified. Easter is not about Easter bunnies and Chocolates… It is the day that Jesus rose from the dead – never to die again.

Did you ever notice that Easter varies so much as to what time of year it is celebrated? Easter is actually determined by Good Friday – not the other way around as you might suppose. Easter is the first Sunday after the first Friday after the first full moon after the Spring (Vernal) equinox. Good Friday came within one day of being as early as is possible in the year 2008 because the full moon and the spring equinox fell on the 21st. This will not happen again until 2106. The earliest possible Easter is March 22. The next occurrence of the earliest possible Easter will be March 22, 2285. The last time it fell on the 22nd was in the year 1818. The latest possible Easter is May 10. Easter has not fallen on the 9th or the 10th ever in history. The first time in history that it will fall on the 9th will be the year 2173. We will not see a May 10th Easter until the year 2268. The dates listed above may be verified at timeanddate.com

A lot happened on Good Friday. It is also known as Holy Friday and several other names.

On the original Good Friday, Jesus was convicted of blasphemy in front of a kangaroo court. He admitted to being God Incarnate (God in a human body so to speak) and that was the last straw! They did not throw Jesus in an insane asylum like they might, today — the religious leaders demanded his death! Jewish leaders did not have the authority to execute people under Roman Law so they took Him to Pontius Pilate. Pilate wanted to release Jesus badly — especially since Pilate’s wife had had a disturbing dream about Jesus. But the Jewish people would not hear of it. Instead of letting Jesus off the hook, they let a rebel named Barabbas walk.

Pilate had Jesus scourged. This is the most heinous thing you can imagine. The whip was tipped with bone and iron shards so it cut through both skin and muscle. Many people did not survive a scourge. This did not satisfy the people. They want Jesus dead.

On the third day (early Sunday morning — Approx. 36 hours after He died — if the Good Friday model is correct. Jesus was actually dead only one full day: Saturday. He died Friday evening and was raised sometime before sunup on Sunday morning.) some people went to Jesus’ grave but he was gone. He had been resurrected! And He still lives! This is now known as Easter.

Jesus was taken up to heaven approximately 40 days after He was resurrected, and now rules at God the Father’s right hand.

The angels that attended Jesus’ ascension told us that Jesus will be coming back in the same way He was taken to Heaven.

And He’s coming back soon!

Maranatha!

Jesus Was Just Another Prophet?

Misconception: Jesus was just another a ‘good man’, Good teacher, or prophet

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (Matthew 1:23 KJV)

Jesus is much more than a “good man” or a prophet or teacher (Rabbi). He is God. He is the fullness of God in a human body. Jesus created the Universe.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made… And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.(John 1:1-3, 14 KJV)

• Jesus is the only person who ever walked who could possibly be the Messiah of prophecy;
• Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies when He walked on earth. The odds of that happening by accident are simply non-existant;
• Jesus knew He was God incarnate when he walked on the earth;
• There is more proof (Of the kind that would be admissible in a court of law) that Jesus was resurrected than there is that Julius Caesar even lived.